TSSxSteel duplexing ?

Open discussion on Tungsten Super Shot "TSS" Handloading.

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denis
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:13 am
Location: near Venice... in the lagoon

Re: TSSxSteel duplexing ?

Postby denis » Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:09 am

Thank you Dave!!!
Unfortunately geese hunting is not authorized in Italy, although geese are lots and lots in the last years and numbers are increasing year after year.
I bought n.7 (diameter 2.5 mm) because it seemed to me so thin... but I have 2.00 and 2.25 too.

ciao

Denis



mt1784
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:51 pm

Re: TSSxSteel duplexing ?

Postby mt1784 » Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:29 pm

So I shot shot 2 with the 37grns lil gun and all steel no tss and the wads were torn a bit but not as bad as with the tss and all the filler wads. For testing I loaded up 3 rounds with 36grns powder 120grns #7tss and 300grns #2 steel. This only needed 2 filler wads under the shot. Book speed on this one is 1400fps, vs the 1460 for the 37grn load. I will see what the patterns and wads look like.



mt1784
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:51 pm

Re: TSSxSteel duplexing ?

Postby mt1784 » Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:38 pm

So I did some testing this weekend. I am going to put the 20 gauge on hold as the lee load all will not make a decent crimp no matter what. I have tried target loads, different hulls all with less than great success. I have ordered the tooling for the P&W so will wait for that. On the BPI 20 gauge load I am getting the brass torn by the extractors and ruining the hull. This happens even when I drop to 36 grains. Anyone have this issue with Cheddite hulls? It did not happen with factory target loads.

On to 12g, I did a mix of 9 (100gr) and 7 (75gr)TSS with #2 steel (260gr). This filled the wad nicely with only one felt spacer. I was happy with the pattern on this one. I will do some more pattern testing and if they continue to look ok will most likely make these our duck/goose load this year.
Pic is 12g IC choke at 30 yrds.
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ctm
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:01 pm

Re: TSSxSteel duplexing ?

Postby ctm » Tue Jun 01, 2021 11:38 am

MT, I wanted to chime-in again to follow up with my recent experience using that same BPI load as a basis for a steel/TSS duplex 20 gauge load. I ended up having to use two pieces of cork plus a 1/8" felt over the cork in the bottom of the PT2092 wad in order to get a good crimp. I also use a piece mylar wrap to eat up space in the wad. I found that I was getting slightly dished crimps when using only felt under the shot, so I punched some cork out of a cork board using a 1/2" punch.

I sub out the weight of the filler (cork + felt + mylar) from the steel shot, so I end up with 109gr of TSS and ~304gr of steel. I use 36gr of powder, but plan to test 34 or 35 grains after patterning the other day. I did not have any burn-through of the PT2092 with 36gr of powder in temperature around 75* +/-. I do plan to test this load once Precision starts testing again.

Below is a pattern at 35 yards. M3020 with LM choke, Cheddite, 304gr #3 steel and 109gr #9.5 TSS, 36gr Lil Gun. I will see if IC or SK chokes open up the pattern. I plan to also test a harder filler directly under the shot in the wad instead of felt to gauge how much that opens up the pattern.
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mt1784
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:51 pm

Re: TSSxSteel duplexing ?

Postby mt1784 » Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:52 pm

Thanks for the update/info ctm. It sure seems to take a ton of filler with that wad and tss. I keep hoping someone will have a 2 3/4 wad available sometime soon as I would like to get some loads tested as that combo of 100-150grns tss and 300ish of steel I am sure would fit.



ctm
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:01 pm

Re: TSSxSteel duplexing ?

Postby ctm » Thu Jun 03, 2021 10:31 am

One option, if you are looking to use less filler, is to use the SAM1 wad from RSI instead of the PT2092. You could then load 437gr of shot following the recipe developed by dla, which is based off of the BPI load you are using to duplex. Dave in AZ pressure tested a fold crimped version of that load, which is what I use (thank you, Dave!).

I found that with 109gr of #9 TSS and ~325gr of #2 steel (subtracting weight of filler from steel shot), I only need one piece of cork and one 1/8" felt in the bottom of the SAM1 wad.

However, I agree with you that a 2 3/4" wad without fillers would be the best option as you could use steel load data for the 3" version of the wad but substitute the 2 3/4" version of the same wad when duplexing. I have read of many people doing this in 12ga (e.g. paulinkansas).
Last edited by ctm on Thu Jun 03, 2021 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Dave in AZ
Posts: 219
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2016 1:38 pm

Re: TSSxSteel duplexing ?

Postby Dave in AZ » Thu Jun 03, 2021 2:21 pm

ctm wrote:One option, if you are looking to use less filler, is to use the SAM1 wad from RSI instead of the PT2092. You could then load 437gr of shot following the recipe developed by dla, which is based off of the BPI load you are using to duplex. Dave in AZ pressure tested a fold crimped version of that load, which is what I use (thank you, Dave!).

I found that with 109gr of #9 TSS and ~425gr of #2 steel (subtracting weight of filler from steel shot), I only need one piece of cork and one 1/8" felt in the bottom of the SAM1 wad.

However, I agree with you that a 2 3/4" wad without fillers would be the best option as you could use steel load data for the 3" version of the wad but substitute the 2 3/4" version of the same wad when duplexing. I have read of many people doing this in 12ga (e.g. paulinkansas).


I was gonna post earlier that I liked your load, ctm, lol.
I think you meant 325gr steel shot above, as 425 would result in a 1.25oz shell?
That wad swap PaulinKansas does only works with same hull length... so mostly 2.75in 12ga, he uses the lesser payload wad, resulting in more wad leg airspace, thus less pressure = OK.
But with 20ga, wads are either for 3in hull or 2.75... just remember you can't stuff a 3in tested load into a 2.75in hull without big pressure increase. So like, the csd203 fits 3in, but csd20 fits 2.75in. If you put a csd20 into a 3in hull, the wad lips are too low and dont come up to the crimp line. So you have to put something below wad to raise it up, like a nitro card, which changes pressure a lot... better to just stuff botom of wad with fillers.

However, there are some 2.75in 0.75in 20ga recipes using csd20 that you could use to make duplex loads. 3/4oz ones. But to me that doesnt make sense, as the duplex is primarily a way to increase pellet count ecomonically, so I want to start with a 1oz if able.



ctm
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:01 pm

Re: TSSxSteel duplexing ?

Postby ctm » Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:22 pm

Thank you for catching that, Dave! I did mean 325gr and fixed my original post. And thank you for clarifying the shell length for 2 3/4” wad swap. I was wondering whether the wad would need to be raised to adequately crimp and you confirmed my suspicion.




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